Special Guest - Robert M. Cunningham, Jr.

Our first guest! We’re excited to introduce you to Robert M. Cunningham, Jr. A longtime friend, Robert was one of the first people who came to mind when we thought about individuals truly living the Unsettled Life. He is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist, pastor, husband, father, and grandfather. In this conversation, Robert shares his journey of being primarily raised by his mother, Miss K, in West “By God” Virginia; enduring bullying as a child; living a wild life in the military; and ultimately surrendering his life to Jesus after two near-death experiences.

Find Robert Here - RMC Consulting 

CALLED TO MORE.  MADE TO RISK.

Episodes Produced by Guestroom Studio Mastering Engineer Caden Baughman

Music Credit - It was Never Enough by Sunbreak.  EpidemicSound.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

I read scriptures that say, Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your strength. And then love others as you love yourself. Well, I don't love people as much as I should, number one. And I don't know if I've done anything with my full heart, full soul, and full strength. And I'm just gonna be honest. Because I asked myself, if I did everything without, if I really believe God that he is the one who does the impossibilities. If I believe God that Jesus said he walked on water, and if I and I believe that he says that he has my back in everything, then I would be doing not a lot more, but in what I'm doing, I would be so grounded in it that there would be no doubt, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Welcome to the Unsettled Podcast, guest episode number one, I guess if we want to call it that. This is Todd along with Thomas, and we have a special guest today, and we'll introduce you to him here in just a second. Thomas, how do you know this gentleman? How did you get to know him?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I was thinking about that earlier today. I don't remember when we met, but it seems like we continue to to cross paths over the years. I I honestly don't remember when we first met about what we were doing. I know we had talked about your when you were starting your consulting business. We'd met around that. I think we've met through churches, we've met through nonprofits, we've met through ministries, we've just crossed a lot of paths over the years. I can't I can't tell you when it started.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Okay. And I know Robert from I I think when we first, when I was working as a youth pastor across the alley here, and you were here at the City Teen Center. Right. And I think we just connected a little bit through that, and then you jumped in with me and Thomas at the time for Good Soil Ministries as we got that started. You sat on the board for that. And then we kind of maybe parted ways a little bit for a time, but now we work as co-workers. You here at the city as our resident therapist, and then I do whatever I do. And uh so and we're in the same building together, and so we get to see each other. But let me introduce you, okay? So I'm probably not gonna do you justice by this introduction, but Robert Cunningham. Robert M. Cunningham. I don't know what I don't even know what the Junior. Oh, that's right, Junior. Yeah. What's the M's? Can you say what the M stands for? Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

No, no, that would not be public. No, actually, I will too. My middle name is Melvin.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Oh, it is Robert Melvin Cunningham Jr. the second. So, and you are from West By God, Virginia. I had to set you up for that, of course. And Robert is married with three children, and actually, one of those who's gonna be working here soon, another one that has worked here before at the City Teen Center. And yeah, we've just all types of connections with the Cunningham family. Your wife works here, Visa, she's here. So, anyways, there's lots more to your story, I know. And we've got several questions that we want to ask you, but how do you feel being the very first guest on the Unsettled Podcast?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

I think as I said before, privileged, honored. You know, I'm excited. You know, you brothers, us, people that I honestly admire. I know your role with with men and also know your faith, and and that is encouraging to be around other lions, you know, that that that put God first in their life. We also have cross path when you were at the Pregnancy Service Center. That's true. Yeah. You know, through I decide, the program that you developed over there.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, that's right. I'd forgotten about that. I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

But when we sat down, when Todd and I were sitting over lunch, we were talking about this, how we wanted to organize it, why we wanted to do this, like we talked with you about what's the purpose and what's the point. And we we knew we needed to get other input because nobody wants to just hear us all the time. You were the what the top name, top two names. Yeah, yeah. And it was because of of your energy. It's because of what we've seen. And like I said, with all the different paths that we've crossed, but we thought who who better to come on and and give some input into what what fuels you, what drives you? Right. How does that help motivate other people? And your name rose to the top. So thank you. Thank you for being here. I'm I'm excited about it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I appreciate that. Yeah. So, first question, and we do we do give you these questions beforehand because we want to give you a chance to think about these. So, but we want to know who is Robert Cunningham.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

I am son, I'm a brother. I was the low self-esteem student that needed summer school. I was molested as a young guy. I am loud, obviously. That's why you had to turn down some of the volume already. I'm sometimes impulsive, highly passionate. The boy that got DDT'd in the hood. You know, if you know anything about a DDT move, that's when your head gets in the arm of somebody else and they just drop to the ground. You know, that was pretty embarrassing and and and a defining moment of my life. I am husband, I'm father, I am people because of those three children. My oldest has three girls. I call them my Gigi's. I'm pastor, I'm a therapist, I'm a friend. I can I consider myself an unknown poet, and also I'm I consider myself a protector. I'm also a black male and proud. I'm a proud man. Those are a couple of characteristics that do define who I am. Man, appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah, there's a lot going on there. We could dig into about every one of those. So talk to us a little bit about your growing up. Like what was it like as a young guy?

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Yeah, so I was raised by a single mother, Mama K. And Mama K is someone that was pretty, pretty solid, strict, you know, held her grounds as a single mother. My father was around, but but not active as I would have wanted him to be. But my mother raised us all, you know, even before she was saved, she sent us to church. And she had this bad parenting guideline, do what I say and not what I do, right? That was at that time. But then God saved her. And I remember her at a at a church service. I was a little guy there, and uh visiting pastor came into town, and I saw her just in the church, and she was on the ground just, you know, crying and and you know, I don't know if you know anything about like deliverance from different things. And so that's what was happening to her. We call it purge. This was a Baptist church, but she was having like an experience uh of deliverance that was not not usual then. But from that, she always raised us with this mindset that you know you put God first. And I love her for that example, and and I admire her for taking care of three children in the way that she did. You know, I consider her strong. She was strict. She still yells too much today, you know, but but that's Mama K. So yeah. I hope that answers you.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, no, totally. Okay, then give us give us a quick little chronology of going from kid kind of to where you're at now.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

I spoke to my aunt about this. I lived with her for about three years when I was living in Memphis, and she told me this. She said, Robert, you had no model. Right. So as a child, not having a father actively in home, I was in between two sisters, an older sister and a and a younger sister. So I consider myself the black sheep of the family. Both were smarter than I was, you know, and just I just realized that I, after being beat up, you know, sixth grade going into the seventh grade, having people, you know, looking and laughing, and and that really defines a young man. So I had, I didn't really have a very high self-esteem, you know, and I walked through life thinking that everybody remembered that DDT. You know, and so I came up, I had my friend group, but was never at all at ease because I was always desiring to be a part of that that it crowd, right? So restless is what I call it. Even in my poetry, I call myself the restless one because that unsettling feeling of being in the in in groups, that's what it was. So, but all throughout my time of growing up, church, you know, was always in church, always had a faith in God. I was like, guy, I don't know if you had this experience that I went to church Sunday, repented a lot, then go back out in the week at school, cuss a little more, do a little more things, come come to church, be convicted. Lord, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I mean, really convicted. I mean, I'm sorry for what I was doing. So always had a always had a heart for, always had a heart for God. We we started off in a in a Baptist church, and then my mother transitioned to a non-denominational church where it was multicultural. That's where Pentecostal is the first time I heard people speaking in tongues and running around the church and shouting. Me and my sisters, oh, oh, it was a laughing fest the first time we went because we were seeing like some things we've never seen before, you know, with what they were doing. But then eventually we saw the freedom of God's spirit in the in the lives of individuals and and and saw saw God move. I actually got prophesied to before I went into the military. I don't think I've even told you guys this. And the person said, Oh, I see you working around a lot of youth. And at that time, I'm like, Yeah, okay. Didn didn't see it at all. But but sure enough, you know, umpteen years later, obviously I'm around youth. I feel very gifted with building relationships with youth pretty quickly. Military after I graduated for for about four years, and that was really to get away from some things that was going on at home. My mother, the strong person that she was at that time, her husband, drove and had a car accident, lost oxygen to his brain. So he was in a vegetative state. So he didn't need oxygen or anything like that, but he also he just couldn't communicate, you know, so it had to be, had to be changed. But my mother kept him home for five years. That was during the time of my late middle school, all throughout high school, and it was time me and her were starting to get, you know, I'm trying to, I'm transitioning to independence and and a lot of back and forth, and and that was my escape to get away from, you know, to get away from that was to go into the military. So so yeah. Where'd you go from the military then? Yeah, man, I was stationed at Fort McClellan, Alabama, which that base I think is now in a ghost town because they buried, I think, some chemicals there uh a long time ago and they shut down the base. But I was in the army. I went in the army as a military police officer. I believe that in in basic training, drill sergeant suprix, he was about your size now that I think about it, Thomas. He was about six. I was gonna say, if you don't know how big Thomas is, not real big.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Bigger than me and Robert, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Right. Drill Sergeant Suprix was was bigger than you, your size, but just, you know, and white gentleman, and it's the first time that I was in the presence of a of a man, a leader, you know, someone that if you're listening, drill sergeant suprix, I'm sorry for telling on you on this, but but he would give a skull bandit, you know, on the packages. So we thought we were the stuff, because you know, you're not supposed to do that, so he's breaking rules, you know, for us. And and and and because we presented well, you know, did well on the the activities and learning. And so he, seeing his leadership, seeing the way he commanded a group, that that was that was my first, my first leadership experience was being a a squad leader in the military, and I watched bad leaders. I watched people trying to be drill sergeants that weren't, and I did the complete opposite of that, you know, and met people where they were, and that's when I realized people you don't have to yell at people to to create change or influence, you know, just meet them where they are. So then after after military, where did you go? Went back home with with nothing but a C D box. C D box? C D box. Yeah, yeah. And uh went back home not in the military, shortly after the military, you know, married for a short while, like to to someone else for about six months, but my my lifestyle wasn't I wasn't saved, you know. So I I was not a very faithful person, not I'm not a man of integrity, and so did some things, behaved in some ways, you know, that wasn't honorable, which when I got saved for the first time, so I got saved June the 8th of 96. So I was out of the military, but still stay still in Hawaii because I'd gotten married, right? So dependent. And so when you when you really meet God and when his spirit enters you, you begin to feel what he feels about what you're doing. You know, and and that for the first time, June the 8th, 1996, prayed. This guy laid his hands on my stomach, began to speak in some some type of language. And my experience, this is not, this is not what everybody needs to or experience, but it's my truth. It was almost as if something was being pulled out of me, you know. Because I went to God, I said, God, I'm finding my identity in women, in the clubs, in drinking and smoking, cigarettes primarily. I didn't do a lot of, I did a couple times, you know, that wacky weed stuff. But but I believe he met me with in since because he understood the sincerity of my heart. And June 8th, 1996, I consider that my new birthday, because after that I admitted to the person that I was with then what I was doing, because honestly, Todd, that's the first time I felt guilty and and the weight of of of and and dirty, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

And so that was the difference. So what prompted you, I mean, on June 7th, 1996, what like where were you at to say, hey, this is some this is a direction I want to go?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Brother, I I almost drowned in at North Shore in Hawaii. Was drinking the night before, jumped out on the the little pier that they had. I couldn't swim a lot in the first place. This was around December. No one taught me to swim sideways in the ocean. So I'm just swimming just to go, just to go back to the shore. And the shore was just not coming to me when I was trying to go to it. And so I started yelling, hell, hell. Seriously, the lifeguard had to come out and get me. And and we he said, You're gonna have to help me. So we're back stroking and I'm swallowing water. I get out, I have a severe headache, obviously. For and I know if I would have died, and I'm getting emotional right now, man, but if I would have died that day, I I'd be, I'd believe I'd be in hell because of my life. Then that didn't, that didn't make me go back. That was before June the 8th, obviously. And then I had a car accident, was driving a Mustang 5.0. Y'all, I used to wear hoops in my in my ears. You know, I had two, I had earrings, double earrings. If my earrings were gold, my glasses had to be gold. And I'm gullible, so I got this tattoo on my left arm because I thought that if I'm on the highway driving 70 miles per hour, people are gonna look over at this tattoo on my left arm in my convertible 5.0, you know, and notice this tattoo gullible. I'm impressed. I'm impressed. So after after picking a guy's girlfriend up from the strip club in Waikiki, dropping him off, I go back to Barbara's Point, because that's where I live with my my wife at that time, and I and I did what I normally do. I punch it, you know, and and and go about however many miles past 80, because the Mustang would keep going even though the you know the speedometer only went to 80. But my car fishtailed and I screamed out, Jesus, and that wasn't Jesus saved my life, that was Jesus I'm spending on the highway. But when she came to pick me up, I just started bawling. I just started bawling because I remembered the fact that I just drowned. And now I have this car accident that just happened, and I said, man, something's gotta change or I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make it. And then what I was brought up in, godliness, you know, getting right, it just it just came to it came to came to grips right there that I need to to go back to a foundation. I went to a church outside of Schofield Barracks in the in the little town. I can't even remember what the town was called. And and that's where that's where God met my heart, man. And and and I had an undeniable experience with God that that absolutely nobody would tell me that we don't have a true father that's that's active in in the lives of those who are seeking him.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

You've got a you do have an incredible testimony for sure. You know, everybody's got our their own story. I've heard bits and pieces of yours over the years, and you know, you you are one who you remember very vividly what life was like before, what happened to bring you to a place where you were on your knees basically. Right. You needed a savior, and then you've had a different life ever since then. What's life been like since then?

SPEAKER_02 17:53

I mean, you know, you know how we move from glory to glory, but initially when we're growing in Christ, we have some great falls. Maybe not everybody, but I had some growing and and and big falls, man, and growing and big falls, and then even in some of my growth, I I even tried to walk away, but his spirit always calling. You know what I'm saying? And so it's been it's been great falls, growing from glory to glory, saying things like, oh man, I slipped into some sin versus now where no, I'm just gonna jump into sin if you know it's it's he brought me to a growth to a place of of self-control versus just allowing feelings and emotions to lead. And so in in short, that's that's what God has done for me, man. Just through my marriage, you know, with my wife, just matured me. I I have not been the the the greatest husband, father, you know, they'll tell you that. But over time, God has definitely matured me with certain connections and people and and accountability.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

So we, you know, as a our podcast, what we're we are desiring is that through our conversations, through guests who come on, that people would begin to uh recognize that maybe there's more, right? Particularly in life with God, that it's it's easy to get stuck, it's easy to settle, it's easy to be comfortable. And Thomas and I have for years just said we we always believe there's more, there's more available. And so we've always tried to in in each other's lives kind of encourage that. It takes risk, it takes somewhat of getting out of that comfort zone. Everybody's story is different in what that looks like. For you, when you think about how you have grown, you were talking about the maturity that's happened in your life. Maybe talk about where in life you have taken a risk that you saw, and maybe we'll just leave it at that. But my guess is a risk that then led to something that was life-changing for you.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Yeah, I've already spoken about risky behavior. You know, a risk is defined as a situation involving exposure to danger, threat, or or some type of harm. And I'm I'm just gonna be honest. I've had a pretty cushion life. Just gonna be just gonna be real with you both.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Really? I mean, I I don't see that. That doesn't maybe maybe I'm seeing you through the the you know, some of the stories you've told me about you know when you were younger and stuff like that. I I guess I don't. I don't see that. Maybe maybe I'm missing.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

I I guess what I mean is I look at I look at biblical examples of of of of people taking risks. Okay. Right? Going out of the way to let people know that God loves them. You know, going out of the way, having a burden for the loss. If you if you look at early church history, it was their it was their unction to tell the story of the gospel. To to not tell it is is is just wasn't even an option. So they will go into this place and that place. So what I what my answer to that is when you when you work around Christians most of your most of your life, you get cushioned and you believe that everybody, the world is is existing the way that everybody is around you. When I went back to school for my master's program, that was I did, I I started a Bible study. It was called Reflections and Rectitude, because I felt like the s the institution that I went to, I won't name the university, but their their mission was this, to equip students to honor God and serve others by integrating their intellectual, spiritual, and professional lives. Well, what I felt is like, well, what what I was learning, I felt like more culture was being thrown or or projected than balancing that out with the gospel. And so I felt marginalized literally in a Christian environment. So I feel like One risk that I took was sending an email to the to the to the I didn't I didn't do it in secret. I sent an email to the faculty, to the cohort that I was in, and the cohort that was following us, and invited them to a Bible study. We studied, I believe, Mark 4, talking about, you know, the soil, good soil. Gentlemen, let's let's talk about our history. And and also, and also, I believe, oh, you gotta help me. 1 Corinthians is 2 Corinthians 15, where it talks about the resurrection. Yeah. And so one of the professors replied back, is this saying something about me? I'm like, no. Or something about us.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Well, well, you know.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

But yeah, I I felt like it was, and it was, you know how we sometimes get this burning, like, this is not right to feel like I can't speak about my faith when everybody else is boldly talking about all these different other beliefs and thoughts about around around marriage and sexuality and gender and all of these things. And and it and and I wasn't the only one, but the difference between me, I was vocal. At this point in my life. I believe you were. I 100% know you were vocal. At this point in my life, it wasn't, and it was tactfully vocal. It wasn't just make noise to make noise. It was no, as the same way you are bold in your presentation and about what you believe, I am the I I can be just as bold and and just as righteous in my own standing as you are with yours. And so that was, I believe that was definitely where if I if I find myself like purposely putting myself in a situation to where it kind of bumped up against the norm, that was one. I think now, and also as a as a as a pastor man, you know, it's one thing about being a shepherd, then you have to, even if you didn't want to, you have to set yourself an example for those who who choose to follow after you. And they're really not following after you. It's not your church, you know, it's God's church. And so, yeah, but risky behavior, or excuse me, not risky behavior, sorry. That's not what I'm teaching. Not what I'm saying, you know. You want to come to a Bible study on risky behavior? I do. Thank you. Yeah. Taking risk, I guess, you know, going back to school, when we left, I don't know if you were there or not, but when we went to that men's group in Georgia, I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you the reason why R.M. Cunningham Consulting is in existence now is because those men showed us at Radical Mentoring that if you've been given influence that has been gifted to you, then you got a responsibility. And that message, oh, let me tell you something. If I wasn't on fire before that, I came back, made up a card, took it to, you know, I worked at uh community corrections in, and and I was like, hey, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but here's my card. Let's, let's, let's get to moving. And that was what that was one moment that allowed me to take a risk because it was I didn't know what I was doing when I was was putting that out there, but that was that was a risk, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

That to me, when I when I wrote that question, that is that's the answer that came to mind for me about you. Because what how old were you when you when we went to on that trip? Oh gosh. That was eight, eight, nine years ago.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

That was a while ago. At least, yeah. So I'm I'm 52 now. So if it was nine or ten years ago then. You were in your 40s, yeah, mid-40s.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah. So I mean, we're talking this isn't something that you you weren't a counselor or a therapist in your 20s. No. I mean, that not even in your 30s. No. So you shifted. I mean, you had been in corrections, you'd done some work in there, you you had done some work with youth, just as that prophecy mentioned for you, which I thought was really cool. But something something happened to where you were willing to take a risk to go to school, to, you know, get your get your master's, get your certification, open up a business. I mean, man, that that's a lot of stuff that happened in your 40s when a lot of us are like, uh I think about this time I'm figuring I'm gonna probably stick this out for the next 15, 20 years and then call it good. But what why?

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Thank you, because that actually pulls some things up. I I never looked at that as a risk. I never looked at that like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Yeah, yeah. People you know, when you work at a job for uh a while, one of our coworkers he would call me the Oracle. All that meant was nothing. Really. It didn't mean anything, but when you're at a job for a long time, you tend to know all the answers to any questions that come up. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, he does this little sign over the head and says, the oracle. Whatever. So outside of that, I realized one of my roles at the city, outside of any defined role, was people found it very easy to come to me with things that were going on at the job, knowing that I wasn't going to take it personal, and I would tell them, well, my role is to bring information up and bring information down. But then the other thing that started happening, and I'd be at Walmart in some other state, and I would just meet somebody, and sure as I'm standing here, they would begin to tell me things about their life. I'm engaged, I have eye-to-eye contact, but in my head, I'm sitting here wondering, why in the world is this person telling me all of this? So it started happening more frequently. And and I said, And then there's, you know how there's something we can respond to very easily. But then there's certain parts of people's stories where you're just silent. I wasn't comfortable with the silence. So one on the paper that I that I wrote to get into the university that I attended, I said, I want to, I'm, I'm come, I'm entering school to become bilingual. Not so much to learn Spanish or French or something like that, but to learn a language about a person's story where I can respond to their story and not feel like I don't I don't have words for it. Well, that that motivated about also, I was like, my I told my wife, I said, I don't think I have time to go. She said, You're never gonna have time. We have good women, we have good wives in our lives who push us. Amen. Amen to what?

SPEAKER_00 28:36

To all the good wives out there.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

You know, let me call her by name. Visa, I see you, girl. Girl, I see you. He's got that grin on his face. Getting kind of weird.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

We need some we need some background music here.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

I see you. But but she she encouraged me. She encouraged me. Even when I left the job at in corrections, I was at a place. It was the highest, I got paid the most, but she encouraged me. Hey, you've been working, take your time, don't rush into a job. Even with even with this, this role of therapist, she said, you need to, she said, you're never gonna have time. And so I went on and did it. And I'm gonna tell you something though. This is this is what I believe. People at this job I've worked help support that. You understand what I'm saying? I I understand that everybody didn't have the opportunity like I did, to where, you know, I had the the blessings of an organization to to push me in the direction, right? And and give me the the latitude, if for lack of a better word, to to be able to do that. And so I uh I re I I'm grateful for the relationships that have that that have been built that that has that has you know helped to push me through that. And now I I give back, you know, based upon that.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

So yeah. So I I went I went out on and watched that video on your website and because I'd never watched it before. And you explained and it was you kind of summarized what you had just said, but one thing that stuck out to me is you said you felt burdened. You felt the burden to be able to respond. And I'm like, that that really stuck out to me that shows what's inside of you. A lot of people would hear that stuff and just okay, I I got other things to do. But it stuck inside you. So explain the why the word burden there.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Again, I'll I'll go back to that to that group that we went to in the Georgia. Georgia, yeah. When influence has been gifted to you, you have a responsibility. Gifted meaning you're not looking for, you're not looking for people to come to you. And I've seen this, I've seen this in both of you guys, where you know people have come to us. We have we we're not saying, hey, here's the door, here's what we do. No, it it just happens just because of our our our presentation. And and then we're not prideful over that. You know, it's just like, oh, you know, this is when that happens, that's a burden. I've started a men's group that it sat on my chest, guys, for like years because I didn't want to just put it out there and then fail. Right? The fear of failure made me not put certain things out there because what if I what if I drop the ball and then I'm trying to lead men and then I don't do the very same thing that I'm trying to help them do. And so that burden, well, now that I think about it, it's probably more God given than anything else. I haven't thought about it like that before. Because of not having a certain example in my life. If if people are coming to me for thoughts, advice, guidance, I want to make sure that I'm I'm I'm doing well and doing that.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

So Yeah, I I love and we talked about this a couple episodes ago, and I was having a discussion with an another friend of mine about the cost of not doing things. And and and I that's what as you're describing that, that's the burden. If somebody comes to Robert Cunningham and says, I I am struggling, I am hurting, the cost of you not engaging with them is potentially them not getting better or or not finding Jesus or not not being fulfilled. And like that, that's where the burden comes from in my mind, is it's a if I don't engage now, if I don't use my gifts, if I don't employ the things that I've been driven to do, that then you're not gonna get what you're potentially what you're looking for. And so that's what we're talking about here. I mean, that's the whole point of this in this entire podcast is to try to get those very examples from people that have said, I'm not gonna ignore that that feeling. I'm not gonna that push, that intuition, whatever whatever you want to call that, the burden, pay attention to that. Right. Because because it it changes lives. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Yeah, I've heard somebody say, and I know I'm quoting it wrong. Um wherever you feel misery in, it's where probably your ministry's in. You know, if you feel like there's there's a weight, and I and I do feel like men made to look like clowns today on our media. We're made to take the take a back door in a lot of ways, and and I celebrate masculinity, not in a chauvinistic way, but God did create us as men. And I believe that we should be proud of that and not try to not try to not try to put a mask over over the fact that we might be hard in some situations, that we're not gonna have the the same response that maybe our our better halves may have, but doesn't make it just because it's different, doesn't make it overpowering. We're not trying to domineer, but we're leaders. You know, we God called us to to lead, and and sometimes that's not popular, but that's our role.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah. So you are a licensed marriage and family therapist, and when I think about where you came from as somebody who people maybe showed up in Walmart and and told you about their story or dumped on you, and you know, just I I don't think you ever probably dreamed of being that, but over the course of time God shifted some things in you. And do you feel right now that you are living in the place that God has made you to be? Who? That was not a question I asked before. It was not.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

I wasn't prepared for all the other questions.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Do I feel like I am currently living in yeah, in the place that you feel God made you, called you to be? Not 100%. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Not 100%. I read scriptures that say, love the Lord your God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all of your strength. And then love others as you love yourself. Well, I don't love people as much as I should, number one. And I don't know if I've done anything with my full heart, full soul, and full strength. And and I'm gonna I'm just gonna be honest. Because I asked myself, if I did everything without, if I really believe God that he is the one who does the impossibilities. If I believe God that that Jesus said he walked on water, and if I and if I believe that he says that he has my back in everything, then I would be doing not a lot more, but in what I'm doing, I would be so grounded in it that there would be no doubt, you know. And so I believe that there is more, not in the sense of, not in the sense of I don't feel like I'm not doing things right now. However, I want to make sure that I'm sensitive to God's voice. And I'll I'll I'll just admit that sometimes my ears are dull of hearing because I haven't done what he's already told me to do. And so he's not gonna give me more if I haven't really done what he's already told me to do. And so, so yes, yeah, I feel like I'm in his in his will and in his way, but no, because I do believe that I would I would be more of a laser. So I have two flashlights if I can do it like this. I'll walk my dog, excuse me, it was my daughter's dog, Nana's my dog, me one basketball player, K you, you know, and so I walk this dog and have two flashlights. One, one flashlight, it has different settings and it's and it's powerful. I mean, it'll it'll when I sh when I shine the light at night, if I can point to another street, I'll see all the stop lines, stop, stop signs shining. The other light has a broader, you know. So if I'm pointing it on a house, the first flashlight, it can go on a window in that section. Well, the other one, it just illuminates the whole house. Well, what I feel like right now is I feel like God has illuminated me and and and and I'm on the whole house. But where I feel like God is doing right now through through just my roles is bringing that light into more into more focus, you know, to focus more on the window of the house and not the whole house. Because if I'm on the window and if I'm on the roof and if I'm on the porch, then then something's not being something's you know, I need to be focused on the one thing or the two things and not trying to figure everything out on this house because that leaves you feeling like things are undone.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

I I love that answer. I love the answer because it it actually speaks a lot to what we've talked about in that we can be in a place where it's like, yeah, I feel like I'm supposed I'm where I need to be right now, and I want to always be open. And you said it sensitivity to God's call, to his voice, to what he's doing, so that we wouldn't just find ourselves doing the same thing over and over again, being settled and thinking, oh, well, this this is all there is to it. Right. You're you're saying, yes, right now where I'm at, I I I I believe I need to I am where I need to be, and there is more available. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

I'd love I love your answer. What's the scripture that says I has not seen nor ear heard you know what God has in store? That's endless. Yeah. I can't even think. I can't even think of what God has in. And I don't think it's just heaven. I don't think that means just when we get to glory. I I think that means here and now, if I would just just believe, I forgot what minor prophet I was reading today, but man, the Lord was telling the telling the people of Israel just if it just you need to let go of this stuff that you're holding on to. I want, I want to be powerful and I want to move on behalf of you, but you gotta let go of the wide flashlight that's on the whole house and focus on focus on what I for what I want you to focus on. And so because that's it's exciting.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

It is it just you you can feel the energy around it it's that unlimited potential. It's like we talked about with the whole tree analogy that you you're you're rooted and you have this energy that you're pulling up, and then you you can go any direction you want. And and it's so like that though. And it's it's just I that gets me excited when just to hear your whole response to that entire thing, it's just it was just that vast potential. That I I'm trying to listen, but where I might go, I don't, I don't know. But there's so much available. And we Todd and I have both agreed starting this, that there's just there's just this prevalence of just kind of giving in to life. Just I'm I'm in my 40s, I'm in my 50s, man. I'm just I'm I'm coasting. That's not the same energy that we're talking about. We're talking about who knows where this could go. But what when you're 55, when I'm 45, I mean, who knows? What what we might sit here and say that that God can do or has done, and when we don't put him in that box, it's it's exciting. It's fun to think about.

SPEAKER_02 40:20

Yeah. Yeah. I'll plan on living until I'm 110 if the Lord said I'm saying. And then I think about Moses, wasn't he 80 when he was commissioned to go before Pharaoh? You know, and I hope I'm right in that age. He was older for sure. He was definitely older. And what did he do? What did he do when God called him? The first thing he did was talk about his limitations. Yes. And I'm gonna I'm not I'm gonna be real with you guys. I I battle with that on a daily basis, comparing, you know, myself to this or that, and not focusing on the God that called me, but focusing on everybody else's call that I'm seeing, you know, and and that's that's a fault. But I believe if if I can keep my mind stayed on him, you know, that's when there's a song, keep keep your mind stayed on him, and he'll keep you in perfect peace. And so, yeah, just just wanting to experience more of God in that way, of having a peaceful mind, a settled mind, and and not uh that immediate fear that we experience, like when we're getting ready to do something. For so long, that has that has locked me. Right? And it takes me almost people to just push and convince me. I want to get to the place where I don't need convincing. We m we all need push, don't get me wrong. We all need support, but it's just that that let the support come after I've made the move, not the support, you know, is the catalyst for the move. And so that's that's where I feel like God is God is growing me in in that realm.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

Well, for what it's worth, I don't whenever I think of Robert Cunningham, I do not think of fear. That is not a word that I would put in the same sentence with you. Now I know each one of us have our own things that we deal with, but at least from the outside looking in and just over years of relationship with you, fear is not something. Timidness is not something. I know you you have talked and you show a boldness as well, but you also do it with love. Like you may not have empathy for anybody. I was just waiting to get that in. We we've talked about this. I explained. So yeah, at one point, I don't remember this was a few years ago, I think, where you were I think you were just I don't know if you were just talking about not not like specifics about clients or anything like that, but all you were just like, I don't you didn't say it like this, but it was like I really don't care. And I'm like, no, wait a second. You're a you're a therapist. Like you don't you have to care. You have do you have no empathy as you're like, no, not really. Well uh you do, right, right, but it it just it does look a little different. And you have a you just have a strong way in the way that you come across to people, you are very direct. But again, I I've never heard you be direct without care and love. And so sometimes those feel like they can be incompatible, but you you do that very well to make sure that those two do work together. I think people just really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

You know, we and I know each one of us will not do well when somebody comes at us in an attacking tone, right? Yeah, let's be honest. That's true. You're not gonna just sit, I I I know you brothers, I know who you are, and let somebody come to you in in the wrong type of tone. It it you might respond at that same level. And so I I I w I like to respond to people the way that I want to be responded to. You know, be truthful with me. Don't beat around the bush because I don't really understand the bush. I don't know the nature of the bush, you know. I don't know if it's the bush is tall or short. I don't understand that. Just tell me, tell me, tell me what it is. Because then basically confront me on even my even my even the things that you think I need to do better on. Because when people do that and they and they're straight but they do it in love, then I know, then I know I need to shift in a way. And so when I talk to people, Todd, I I I am direct because I I I expect that for people to be with me, but also tactful in that because I want them to know that I love them, even in my directness, you know. So yeah. And I'll explain the empathy. If I can give one example. Yes, please do. So my son, me, we have a car that's, you know, very, very old. My son, and it's been passed down from almost kid to kid. And so when my son was driving this vehicle, there was no AC, there was no, there was something going on with the windshield, there was no rear view, no rearview mirror. Sorry, I'm laughing right now. And he drove like this for like two years. And my wife would tell me, you need to get this check, you know, check for a freel. Maybe it just needs that. I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, I'm gonna, and I, and I, and and honestly, I did, I was concerned. Now, my son leaves off for college. I give him my other car, you know, a more highway-worthy. Well, I drive the car that he had for like two days during the summer. That's enough of that. Yeah, man, and I'm telling you, in a week's time, it had a rear view mirror. The radio didn't work either. I put an old cheap radio in it, fix some some some lining that was off, and and then put free on in the AC that had AC. And and my son was like, Dad, that's what I mean. That's that's empathy. Empathy means you have to be in the, you have to feel what I felt before you felt what I felt. So I said, maybe I don't have empathy. I have sympathy. Yes, sympathy. You know, but to put yourself in the shoes is is is what empathy is.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

So that's a great example. Thank you. The therapist with no empathy. Wait, well, don't put that on your website. No, no, no, no, we're not. All right, let me let's go one more question. Okay, I want to hear current. Okay. Like what's where do you see God is growing you right now? Is it is there a place maybe where you're sensing him to call you into a place that's a little more uncomfortable or what but where do you see him him inviting you into growth right now?

SPEAKER_02 46:33

So as I said before, just being utterly dependent on his word and not limiting him by my own limitations. That means if the Bible said it, then it can be done today. That's where he's that's where the that's what I'm praying for that God leads me to a place of God, if you want to do divine healing, I want to see it. If if I can read about it, I should be able to experience it. Demonic deliverance. I think you know, we see a lot of people addicted to drugs, addicted to a pornography, addicted to a number of things. And and I do believe some of that is driven by demonic influence. And and we we we almost over-spiritualize the reality that if we believe in God, we must also believe that there are spirits that are that are actively, you know, charged to rob us of our faith and to rob us of our belief. And so I believe under the name of Jesus that every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess to Jesus is the Lord, and at the name of Jesus, demons tremble and can flee out of people. Now, and I'm not expecting people to, you know, and all of this. However, if a person goes, comes to the church that I pastor or or any other church, because we pray for all the churches in Salina, that we should have the authority over certain spirits, you know, and some people they don't know that they can be delivered because they think the issue is them and they never consider. Man, maybe there might be some outside entity that is actually at work in me. And if we can identify the spirit in the person, then then I believe they can be delivered. And no, that's what I believe. Also believe I want to I want to see signs and wonders, man. I'm just gonna be honest. I don't think the time is over. I don't I don't think God has stopped moving. You know, you remember when Jesus was in a certain place and he said he can only do limited, limited miracles because of their of their faith. And thank you, God. Man, I uh I just I just want to believe God to be the God that He the way He the way He showed Himself to be. And and why why is it any different in 2026? You know, could it be for me, not for anybody else, could it be because of my limited really faith that He is real? I also also do this. Do I really believe in hell, gentlemen? Do I really believe that at the end of our lives, there is two places that we're gonna go to glory or to damnation? And if I really believe the gospel, then this good news is they don't they don't have to be eternally damned. And we have we are the bridge. You know what I'm saying? You know how exciting that is to know that I, you, me, the people that are listening, are the bridge between their destruction uh and and and and and their eternity in glory. And I think that's uh it's a high call. And so I think he's growing me as a husband and a father. I'm not as reactive as I used to be in both roles. I'm not as self-centered as I used to be. I'm I'm not the I don't care about your tears, they're not going to move me, guy. Because I used to say that. And it wasn't like I didn't want you to cry. It's just like the decision that I made is not going to change. But when I made, when I said those words, it really cut off emotionally. So that was the that the lack of empathy piece. I didn't know that those words could actually have long-term effects, you know, on my children's mind and thinking as they think about processing pain, you know. And so, and also as a husband and a father, I try to listen more and not respond to my first emotion of defense or of offense, you know, and that's that's not that's a learning, you know, because again, if you if you if you if you approach me a certain way, I'm gonna approach you back. Now, my wife is kind-hearted and everything, but I don't want to make sure that I respond according to what the word says and not according to what I feel. And then lastly, you know, I'm the pastor of Lift, Church of God in Christ. So, so so what that means is I'm a I'm a shepherd. You know, all that means is, and I'm telling you, man, that's the people that just just rush into pastoring, I don't understand those people. I just don't, who are just excited about going into that is us, that is a deep responsibility. It is uh is a it is a humbling responsibility, and we are responsible to guide people in in the direction of following God. So if I don't say something, their blood is on my hand. If I do say something, it's not on my hand. And believe me, there are some times where I don't want to say certain messages that God gave me because it talks about hell and it talks about bondage and it talks about, hey, God is not pleased with certain certain of these things. So so as a shepherd, he's grown in the area of talking about the necessity of living out faith rather than just talking about it. Also, I believe that the church is not for programming but for pursuit. We talked about this earlier. Christianity is not about a church building. These are important, you know, and I'm not knocking it, but Christianity should be about the pursuit of the lost. That's the gospel. The first what did Jesus say after he was after he was uh tempted of the devil? He came off that mountain and he said, This is the first thing he said, repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. So so the job as every Christian is to engage people, let them know that Christ is expecting a change of mind and a conversion experience to make because God doesn't want anybody to go to hell, man. The Bible said he gets no pleasure out of the death of the wicked. None. And so whoever thinks that God is just up there with this, with this, with this shovel, just shoveling people into hell, that's not his that's not his will. There's one scripture that says that hell is literally enlarging itself because it was only supposed to be for the devil and his angels, but it's enlarging itself because we constantly, and I gotta fight myself constantly are in are in hot pursuit to run away from what God has for us. Hot pursuit of something else and and not God. And then where he's grown as a shepherd is to in pursuit just just the ability to tell people the good news of the gospel balanced by the reality of the righteous judgment of God, and that's a risk. He's a good God, he's a loving God, but he's also a just God, he's a patient God, he's uh he's uh he's a ever-forgiving God, but then there's gonna be a time, I believe sooner than later, that he's gonna come back as our as the ruling king, as the lion of Judah, right? And and God loves people so much that He He's called us, brothers, he called us to tell people and to and to have the privilege of leading, because I know you're pastoring now, and and and and then we're also pastors of our family, which is the most hardest area sometimes to be a shepherd in. And so, but yeah, we have a call, and it's not something to to glorify in ourselves, it's it's to give God glory. You remember the disciples took no glory, even when they, even when God used them to perform miraculous things, and when people began to worship them, they said, Oh no. You know, they would they was like, do not give me any of that glory. We're just mere men like you. It was at the name of Jesus that these things happened, right? They took no glory for themselves. So that's that's why that's where I want to be. I don't want to take no glory when I tell you, man, I just want to be a conduit of of the move of God. And and I want to see, man, I'm I'm excited about seeing miracles. I I think God's gonna do it. And I'm not saying that just for just for voice and ooh, he believes. No, man, I I believe God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Reverend Cunningham. We have to leave an offering now. Don't forget your time. And then here comes the altar call. Start playing. Yeah. And Robert can sing too. I'm telling you, man. He can sing. If you want to hear a baritone sing, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

We gotta do that again, though. We have to do it in what is it, the farm. Yeah. We gotta set those up again. That was exciting. That's fun.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Well, Robert, man, thank you so much for coming on. I know we could sit here and talk a whole lot longer, but really appreciate you coming on, sharing what you did. You're a great blessing to us. We love you. We're really glad to have you as a friend and as a brother as well. So I've been thinking about this. This is probably the stupidest thing I'll probably say in my all the episodes. I think you and me, we need to try out for either a play or a musical at the community theater because I think you and I would be amazing. And Thomas is over there. Okay, but if we don't evolving, if we don't if we don't do that, you and I got to figure out a skit that you we can do. Because I I think I think there's something that we can do. I'm telling you, you would love it too, Thomas. It sounds right up my eye.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

You would all right. Hey, good to have you, brother. Thank you. I appreciate you both. Thanks for being on our team. I mean, that's how I see it. We're we're on it, we're a team. We got up, we got a lot more to do, and I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Thank you, man. I appreciate you guys. And I admire you. You know, this idea of a podcast that came as a thought, and it required faith, and your faith brought this to fruition, and now it's impacting, you know, hundreds, and let's pray for for more people to uh to tune in to hear to hear some real some real people that are following after God. So man, definitely not that you need this, but I'm very proud of you guys, man. Yeah, yeah, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

We believe help our own belief, right? Help our own belief. Yep. Well, hey, thanks everybody for listening in to our first guest here on the unsettled podcast.