007 - Forgetting How to Dream, Deep Roots & Expanded Kingdoms

Have you forgotten how to dream?  In Episode 7, Todd & Thomas discuss their reactions to a Wild at Heart Podcast episode emphasizing the importance of dreaming, imagination, growing deep roots, and expanding our kingdoms.  

Don't stop short on this episode.  God reveals an important lesson near the end that is sure to bring encouragement and hope.  

Referenced in this episode:

• Wild at Heart Podcast Episode 870

CALLED TO MORE.  MADE TO RISK.

Episodes Produced by Guestroom Studio Mastering Engineer Caden Baughman

Music Credit - It was Never Enough by Sunbreak.  EpidemicSound.com 

Transcript

Intro and Dreams

SPEAKER_00 0:05

And there was just even something in the guy's voice a little bit, it was just like this defeat, you know, it's he didn't talk about his career, he didn't talk about the things he'd been accomplishing, and it sounded like this guy had some things going well for him. But but when he stopped and kind of admitted that, there was kind of this resignation in his voice of, I don't know how to dream. And it really stuck out to me as I was listening to that, thinking, do I know how to dream?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Welcome to the Unsettled Podcast. This is Todd alongside Thomas, episode number seven. Man, thanks for listening. We've had several people tell us that they're excited about what we're doing, and we hope it's helpful. It's been good for us. We've really been, I mean, this has caused us to have to think a lot and not just have a podcast about this, but also this is our life. Like we're testing this out as we go as well. So it's been good, but thanks for coming on the journey with us. Hey, last time in episode six, we talked a lot about questions. And so I'm just gonna start out with a question for you, Thomas. And we talked a little bit offline about maybe where this might be going today. I did not ask you this question on purpose because I want to just get your initial reaction. So when you were a kid or younger, what did you dream about? Or or who did you dream about being, or what did you dream about doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

I've always had very vivid dreams. I've always, even to this day, when I wake up in the morning, I feel like I just watched a movie. Yeah. So I can still remember dreams I had when I was a little kid. Some of them were kind of recurring dreams. There was one where I was a I was a knight going into a cave of going after like a dragon. Yeah. Um I I had some dreams where I was flying. I had a lot of nightmares too. I don't I don't I've had a lot of vivid things, but I can't tell you that I had a dream of where I wanted like what I wanted to be when I grow up. I think I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. So yeah, I I don't know that it was a it was a vivid, static dream of here's where I want to get to. Let me spend all my time getting there.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

So nothing like uh you didn't want to be a fireman or a professional athlete, or I mean, you know, you hear all those things that kids when they're younger, you know, say, What do you want to be when you grow up, or something like that? You didn't really have a specific thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

No, my my dreams were so different every night. They were just like I said, it was kind of like watching a movie every night. It was just very I think it was when my brain my brain just fired all night long. And to this day, I what about you? What'd you dream about?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Man, I I don't ever remember having a specific thing I wanted to do. I I I always enjoyed sports, so I thought, oh yeah, it'd be fun to eventually try to do something maybe professionally, but I mean, golly, that's impossible. At least it was for me. I didn't have the skill or the speed to I had a few. And you were faster than me, so what does that say about me? But yeah, I I think I know over the course of years as I was getting into maybe high school and college, I always wanted to make a difference. I always wanted there to be value to my life, I wanted there to be purpose where I would made a difference in somebody else's life. I I can remember that, and I think that's still true, but man, I don't I don't ever remember having that real specific thing that I wanted to do or be when I was older. So

What are we Dreaming About?

SPEAKER_01 3:47

here's the thing. We listened to a podcast this last week. We'll put a link in the in the show notes. And so the Wild at Heart podcast had uh a couple guys on in their 20s. In that conversation, you and I both listened to it, and and a couple things hit us differently as we were listening to it. You had one thing specifically related to uh uh a statement one of the guys had about dreams. You want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Yeah, I mean the it was a conversation. I think they were just trying to get input from a couple of younger guys. I mean, they were in a different decade and a different generation than the hosts of the podcast, and just asking them about their day-to-day. I mean, some of the same types of topics that that I think we've broached on here. But but one of the guys he made a comment that he just said, Um he was working all the time. He he was just trying to to do what most people do, and he just said, I just I don't know that I know how to dream. And and I I stopped it and I kind of rewound that again and listened to it. And there was just even something in the guy's voice a little bit, it was just like this defeat, you know. It was he didn't talk about his career, he didn't talk about the things he'd been accomplishing, and it sounded like this guy had some things going well for him, but but when he stopped and kind of admitted that, there was kind of this resignation in his voice of I don't know how to dream. And it really stuck out to me as I was listening to that, thinking, do I know how to dream? I mean, do I so if if I'm listening to this and I'm hearing this guy say that, and that seems to be alarming to me, then if I look in the mirror and say, What am I dreaming? Do I know how to dream anymore? Or or have I kind of resigned myself to what I'm what I'm currently doing? Yeah. So can you can you answer that question?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

And I I'll answer the question too. But do you have anything currently that you are dreaming about? Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

What? I've got okay. I've got I've got dreams. Well, we talked about this a few episodes ago about things that shoot first and aim after you shoot. I've got dreams like that. I've got dreams about starting new businesses, starting new ventures, starting things that probably don't have much chance of success. A group of us with the Journey Ventures, we've had some levels of success with this and some levels of failure with this, of trying to launch things. I I have a lot of dreams around that idea of what can come out of nothing. Who can I come along beside and elevate what they're doing to a different level? You know, what what resources do I have that I can bring into a situation that currently is stagnant or maybe doing a little bit better and can I blow the door off? I have a lot of dreams about that. I don't know if they're all practical dreams. Doing this podcast, I think it's been a dream that both of both of us have had.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

I guess that's right. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. So I I would say that had been a dream of something I I remember listening to podcasts and just being like, oh, I think it'd be so cool to try that. And just hearing like what worked for one, what worked for another, why it made it for a good podcast, and just dreaming about man, could I do that? Could I could I host something like that? Would that be something that anybody would even care to listen to? And maybe not, but we give it a shot. And so we're trying it, right? So yeah, I guess that's true. Because initially, when I was thinking about this question for myself, I'm like, I man, I don't, I don't know. Is there anything that I really I'm not sure there's a specific dream that I have right now? I mean, my I think in my life stage, so I'm 46. Yeah, no, 47, yeah, 46. God, this is ridiculous. You just lose track. You don't, no, it doesn't matter anymore. You're just getting old. You're old. Yeah. And and my my son's about get ready to graduate high school. My daughter is a sophomore in high school, and I feel like I have dreams for them, like things that I I'm hoping for them. So by having that for them, I've almost deferred my own and my attention and energy maybe has gone more towards, oh man, I'm excited for what's ahead for them because I don't know what it is. I don't know what each one of them is going to do in the future. And that's that's a little exciting and nerve-wracking at the same time. But I I think I do have some dreams for them. But in the meantime, what are my dreams?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I man, I'm I don't know. That's what we're that's what we're figuring out. So think about it this way. Think about it in this framework of

The Cost of Not Dreaming

SPEAKER_00 8:24

what is the cost of not dreaming? So, what's the cost of what if we start a podcast? Okay, so for example, what if you and I were sitting at lunch and we just we've always said we should start a podcast, we should start a podcast. So, what if we never started the podcast? What's the cost of that? Who knows how many people is gonna listen to this? If one person ever listens to this podcast and sits down and says to themselves, I'm gonna ask God a question. I'm gonna develop a relationship that I have not previously had. If one person ever does that in the history of the this podcast being available, that was worth you and me sitting here and doing this. That means the cost of not dreaming is that one person potentially reaching new heights. I think that changes the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yeah. So, okay, ask that question again. It's what's the cost? What's the cost of not not dreaming? Of not dreaming. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly, I mean, you mentioned the resignation that you heard in the voice of that guy on that podcast. Yeah, the the cost, it could be to me, it could be to those who could benefit. That's probably that's probably more than anything, is it's maybe not even me. It's it's probably more for those that it affects more than anything. Because more than likely, if I've at least in my experience, the thing that I've always wanted to do is have an impact on people. And so if no, I no longer am pursuing or wanting or thinking about that dream, well, then okay, the people that then would have been influenced or impacted, that's not gonna happen, I guess. So so maybe that is maybe one of the major things that's lost by not dreaming.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

Yeah, and and dreaming, I just wrote it down. Dreaming is approachable. Everybody can dream. You don't have to be of a socioeconomic status to dream, you don't have to be of a particular particular religious belief to dream. Anybody, anybody can dream. I mean, you you never know what opportunity it could lead to if you're if you're getting a coffee in the morning and you make a comment to somebody that you wouldn't normally make, or you put yourself out a little bit different than you would normally do. I would argue that that lends itself to dreaming of saying, well, if I put that out there, what what might happen with it? Anything could happen. If I don't put that out there, if I don't dream, then I'm never gonna find out what that was worth. If we don't put the podcast out, we're never gonna know what other people might share or might experience through that. So that's the cost of not doing it to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Is it worse to keep having dreams that you never do anything about, or is it worse to not dream?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

See, I would say we all can dream, we just forgot how to dream because probably scared or or because we're in a rut, like we discussed. I think ever I mean, so go back to the first question you asked me about what did you dream about when you were a kid. Man, everybody, I mean, everybody that's had kids or everybody can rem if can remember being younger, you had these like let's go on an adventure, let's go explore someplace. Let's you're I think we're just born with that. I think everybody at a very young age, whether you remember or not, you're super curious. You want to know. I mean, that's dreaming to me. It's it's it's the what's possible if I lift that rock up, what might be underneath it? It's it's just wired into us a little bit. And I think if we just continue through our life and we just know what to expect, and I know what tomorrow's gonna be, and I know my drive to work, and I know everything that's expected of me, and I'm never gonna do any more than that. I'm never gonna dream anymore. Well, why do I I don't need to dream anymore?

SPEAKER_01 12:09

So I forgot.

Imagination

SPEAKER_01 12:11

So that's I mean, it's imagination too, right? I mean, it's dreaming requires some sort of imagination to say, I can imagine something different than what I have right now. And and is that what is what happens over time that our imagination is seen as either not necessary or bad. And so over the years, our imagination is what we lose. Is it that we become so practical and so adult and mature that I'm not gonna have imagination because that's dangerous and it leads me in directions that I probably shouldn't go? Is is that what happens? Is we just lose our imagination?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Well, I mean, it's it's naive to be to imagine, you know, potentially. I mean, it it makes you feel like you're you're not practical, like you're not realistic if you're spending your time in dreaming, if you're if you're doing these things that aren't tangible. What you had mentioned the comment earlier about saving for retirement? Is that dreaming? Is is that I mean, that's a practical thing. That's just a hard reality. Going to work is a hard reality, and people expect those things of you. Does anybody expect Todd on a daily basis to dream? Does anybody at your job today look at you and say, I expect you to have an imagination? I expect you to dream while you're here. I I'm just do people do that?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah. I mean, actually, so my job is partly creative, like meant to come up with things that are gonna help to make the the programs that we offer students better. So we have to have we have to imagine something that's better than what we already have. Then the question is, how do we get there? That I mean, that's part of my job. It is to consider what does that look like? And I I love that. In fact, the the things in my jobs that I've really enjoyed the most is here's what we need. We we we need you to imagine what does that look like and how do we get there? I mean, that I love that. That's something I if I don't have that in my life, then I do feel like what am I going after? Where what what's the purpose behind things right now? So, so yeah, I I think that is something that I have right now. Do you have to have that in in your role too?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

I I I'd gotta I gotta solve problems. Yeah, and a lot of times that requires using your imagination of saying, is there a is there a better way to get this done or a more efficient way to get this done? Now, I'm I'm doing that in the bounds of you know the IT realm of things. So I do think in with where I'm at and my position at work, I I do have to rely on that sum. I do think we have some people that don't spend a lot of time dreaming. I think they're I'm here, I need to get I've got a set of tasks that I need to complete, and then I'm gonna leave. So I don't I don't feel like that's my job, but I'm also learning that that's kind of my expectation is that you don't just show up and do all that you have to do and then leave, that you use your imagination. As we're talking about this, I'm thinking, I think that is an expectation I have.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, so there is value in having time set aside to imagine. And at the same time, when I'm saying that, I I can envision in my mind a kid in in school who's looking out the window and he's daydreaming, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

And like, that that's negative.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

That's I was just gonna say the same thing. That's a bad thing. Yeah, stop daydreaming, get back to get back here so you can focus on what's at hand. And it I wonder if it just over time you feel like imagination is something that is a bad thing because it's taking away from the now.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

I mean, if I'm on a phone call or if I'm in a in-person meeting with a client and we have a serious issue that we're working on, and I'm like, hey, hey guys, I I'm gonna go take a minute to dream. How's that gonna go? I'm gonna go, I just need a little bit of time here so I can I can let my imagination run and see if I come up with a better solution. No, that sounds very unproductive. That is not gonna happen. However, that same person would love me to have an efficient, good solution for their problem, which I'm arguing does require me sometimes to step away from it and and dream a little bit and think. I don't I just don't think that's the expectation most of the time, is that we give ourselves freedom or or we give other people in our lives freedom to why don't you just spend some time with this and think about it in a different way, dream about it.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Okay.

Deep Roots & Expanded Kingdoms

SPEAKER_01 16:54

So in that podcast, the Wild at Heart podcast, where they were had had the two guys that from in their 20s that were talking about, it was the different issues that they were facing as 20s somethings right now in the in the world. There was this part of it that I listened to, and I'll I'll tie this into what we've been talking about with dreams, where they were talking about the tug between deep roots and a vast kingdom. And and it was kind of this idea that in your 20s, it's it's important that you are you're kind of grinding, you're working hard, you're building up who you are. You know, it can be a time when, man, you're spending 45, 50 hours working, you're just getting it done so that you can prepare yourself for later on, so you don't have to work so hard, right? So that's the that's one thing you're being told. And then on the other hand, it's like, okay, go explore the world, try different things, your 20s or time to just see what's out there. It's this vast kingdom that's to be explored. And and they said they fill this tug between, okay, so which is it? Am I supposed to have these deep roots and and and really work hard, or should I try different things and explore and travel? And and it's almost like it feels like one of those is dreaming, imagination, like getting out there, trying a whole bunch of different things because you want to see what's out there. And the other one seems like it's more of a no, don't, don't do that, like just practically do what you need to do to make today work so that tomorrow, then you can have opportunity to explore and and maybe bring that imagination back. It feels like in some ways, it's one or the other. Are are are those two compatible or are we just stuck in a place where, well, I I I need to either be a dreamer or be practical?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

I I think they are compatible because I think they have to be. I I think in order to experience the life that we've been designed to live, I think we have to have characteristics of both. We we have to have the ability to just grind some stuff out. I just had this conversation with my boys uh literally last night. We were talking I was talking about they're freshmen in high school, they're dealing with being a freshman. You know, they're they're having to pay their dues, go through all the stuff, build the foundation. And so my wife and I are trying to encourage them and say, hey, we remember when we were freshmen. If you're listening to this, you probably remember being a freshman. Yeah. When you, and it was, man, this isn't really fun every day. But but what the majority of parents or supportive people are telling you is, hey, you're doing what you need to do, you're paying your dues, so that later you will have that to stand on. You're you're building a reputation and a foundation. Okay. I'm also never gonna tell my boys you you really can't do any more than this. That this is this is kind of your ceiling, and and don't expect more than that. I I would never want to do that. So I'm either a terrible parent or both of those things can happen at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yeah, man, maybe maybe it maybe it is seasons. And I can think like like right now where I'm at, I'm just trying to bring this into the now. Yes, there have been a lot of years over the last you know 20, 25 years where it has been deep roots, you know, building things, building a family, building who I am as an employee, who I am as a person. I mean, there are a lot of things that I've I have worked hard at, and at the same time, I've always had kind of an imagination of something that's greater than what's in the moment. And I don't know. I I just I wonder if sometimes I I get myself in in trouble because it's supposed to be a season of deep roots, and instead I'm trying to make it a season of exploration and wilderness and getting out there and trying more. I mean, I just wonder if yes, they are compatible, but they have to be done at a certain time where God is really focused on one, and then as that develops, then we move into a season of another. And I I don't I don't know that this is the way this works all the time. We're we're spitballing trying to work this out right now. But is there a way maybe that we just can say I'm okay to be in a place of building deep roots, of putting down deep roots? And and so I'm not maybe dreaming as much right now. I'm not moving into that exploration, but that's getting me ready for a time when I will. So, how could we ever know?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Rewind back a couple episodes ago, then we have to ask. And I think we have to continue to ask. Here's where I am, here's what I've built, here's what I've tried to do. Is this the place? Is this the thing? We're going to know if that's true or not. You said you tend to get into that five to seven year unsettled feeling. So you have had multiple periods in your life of deep roots. And it's time to go. Now, you're not walking around wearing hemp shoes and you know with no shirt on, and you're not you're not that guy. So I know you're not just, hey man, it's just well, everything's everything's great, it's no problem, but you do have deep roots. You have deep roots in relationships, in family, in your community. And at the same time, you you have been able to explore other avenues and other ministries and other things that you can do. It's because you you've asked and you've listened. And I think that's what life looks like. Life is it's dynamic. Either one of those polarized sides of what you're saying, either one of those things is really, really kind of static in terms of I'm I'm a deep root guy, this is my routine, this is good, or I'm just gonna do whatever I want whenever I want. Both of those things are on total ends of the spectrum, but they don't allow for anything back and forth. And I think creation was this idea of there is huge amounts of constant change, there's also times of this is this is stable and this is secure. I think that's what life is.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah. If you are thinking about that right now, or if you were asking God, do you find yourself right now in a deep roots place or a vast kingdom exploration place?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I think with the with the way my family's changing, with the way my kids are growing up, with the way that we're trying to adapt to that, trying to adapt to aging parents, trying to adapt to high school kids, trying to adapt to a teenage girl, trying to adapt to all these things that we don't know what in the world to do with. I do feel like we have that. I don't know, I'm a little off balance. I'm I'm trying to figure this out. However, I look at the side of what we've built for with our careers, supporting our kids, supporting our family, and I I feel the roots part of that too. I don't think I'm all the way in either camp.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

I'm I guess I'm thinking about where we're at right now, and we've attempted to put some deep roots down, and that we've kind of struggled in that a little bit, just because everything feels like it's it does it doesn't feel like anything right now is solid. It feels like everything, like with my son getting ready to go off to college, just the reality of life change as you get older, what happens in your body, hormonal changes, I mean, all that stuff, it just feels like everything is kind of kind of spinning a little bit. And so it it does feel like this is a time where deep roots are just not going very far because it just feels like there's a lot that's getting ready to change or is is in a constant flux. And so I feel like we are in a place where there is exploration, but it's exploration that I don't really want and that I didn't really expect, and I don't know what the crap I'm doing when it comes to all this change. And so I almost feel like, man, God, can we just get some deep roots right now? I'd rather not have to have all this stuff spinning and exploration and discovering all the things that I never even knew existed when it comes to what's happening when you're in your 40s and your 50s, and but it feels a little bit like that's forced on us right now. And I don't know, I I guess for me, I just would welcome some deep roots.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

So we're talking deep roots now. What if it's deep roots? What if you're on that bench and it's you and you are detached from all the weird things your body's doing when you're getting older, all the things the decisions that all your family and everybody else makes. What about that level of root? You have you have that root.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yes. So you're saying that no matter what happens, there's already a deep root there, that foundation, the thing that I can depend on. So in in my experience, it's the mighty oak, it's who I am that God says I am, going back to those deep roots. So there are things that are already there that I can go back to. For you, it's being on the bench and knowing that that stability and that peace that you had, and you can keep coming back to. So it's because I don't feel like there are deep roots right now, I'm dependent upon the deep roots of my past. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Which might be, which might be exactly why you feel this way, to remind you of what your roots actually are grounded in. That that river of life that we talked about in that study, that you are pulling your energy and the very things that make you you from that root, the roots that we've been discussing, because I think that's what everybody does, are the career and the family roots and the thing, those are important roots, but the route that goes down into that river, that's not changing.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Okay,

Jeremiah 17:7-8 - The Tree By The River

SPEAKER_01 26:57

since you just said that, that totally reminds me of the passage out of Jeremiah. So I'm just I want to get there real quick. Jeremiah 17. This was something that God showed me. Oh gosh, this was well, I think back in COVID, actually. So Jeremiah 17. Let's see how much this applies to right now when you're talking about deep roots, okay? So Jeremiah 17, this is verse 5 is where it starts. This is what the Lord says cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength, and whose heart turns away from the Lord. He will be like a bush in the wastelands, he will not see prosperity when it comes, he will dwell in the parched places of the desert, in a salt land where no one lives. But blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him, he will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream, it does not fear when heat comes, its leaves are always green, it has no worries in a year of drought, and never fails to bear fruit.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

I just I love that. I love the tree. It's it's the whole it's where does the top of that tree go? When you look at the top of a tree, what is restricting that branch? Nothing is restricting it. That is dreaming. That that that brings everything back to where we started. When you look, and and I've got a story about that. I I was in a job and I was stuck. I was not happy, I was in a rut, and I showed I was driving to work and I was like, this isn't enough. This is not good enough. I don't know what to do, but this isn't good enough. And I will vividly remember walking into that day to work, and right before I reached to grab the doorknob, I looked across the street, and there's this great big walnut tree, and I looked at the very top of that tree, and the breeze was moving it, and I looked at the highest leaf I could see in that tree, and it was like I thought to myself, that's the top of the tree. That tree can grow in any direction it wants. That tree can move with the wind. That tree has survived storms. That leaf on top of that tree is me, and I can go where I need to go. And what you just said is because that root is tapped into a source. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

That's it. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So, so yes, they are compatible. They are you can have deep roots and you can be expanding at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Because your source isn't changing. There it is. That's the it it it that's exactly. I can totally relate to how you feel about things are things are happening to me, around me, inside me, all this stuff. I don't care where where you're at in your life when you're listening to this, everybody has people that are struggling, everybody has conflicts, everybody has those things you can't ignore. Your source is not going to change. The roots we've been talking about are deep roots, but it's not that root. That root you read about is not gonna change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

We had no idea where this was going when we first started talking. The source, that's what matters. The source, we've got to be tapped into the source. The deep roots takes us to the river of life, takes us to the one who is the source of all life, so that as we come upon heat, difficulty, hormones, all the changes, teenage girls, I mean all the things of parents that we have to work through, there is expansion available. There is a way that we can work through it, and it is by staying tapped in to the source that also helps us to dream and to see that more is available, so that as we are in him and with him, and he's living through us, because it's that vine and branch thing, too. I mean, that's that whole metaphor that the fruit will come because of who we are tapped into and what we're connected to.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

We all can look different. That that that's part of the beauty of that, is we're not all going to have the same shape and color and it and grow in the same location. And we all have different things to do. We got to get Jason on here. He's a horticulturist, he's a tree guy. Oh, yeah. This would be his thing. This is right up his alley. I'm thinking about him when we're talking about this, but he he gave a really good sermon, really, uh about trees, but he kind of discussed on this whole thing. It's it's the root. I just that's it.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

So, okay, to wrap this up, the key in continuing to dream, the key in continuing to stay firmly rooted, and to see yourself grow and expand and have both deep roots and a vast kingdom is to be tapped in to the source. We would say that is Jesus, the one who is the way, the truth, and the life who will provide that for us, so that when we come upon the things that are challenging, we have something to stand on, we can continue to grow, and we can feel like God has a plan for us, even in the midst of some challenge.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

So the source empowers you to dream, it allows you to dream. There you go. Without the source, what's the point of dreaming? You can dream and you can fail, and that doesn't change. That's the security. That's why you can dream. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

I think that pretty well takes care of it. Well, man, that's so good. All right. So I'm sure we're gonna have a lot more conversation around this and more things that we're gonna learn from this. But thank you, God, for what you just did in our conversation to just help us. And if you're listening and you have no idea what we just talked about, well, I guess it wasn't for you, it was for us. But man, we're grateful for the opportunity to just talk about this. So join us back again next time as we jump into episode eight. We'll see where God leads us for that one. But you've been listening to the Unsettled Podcast.