001 - Jesus the Carpenter, Diving Boards, and Singing Karaoke

In Episode 1, Todd and Thomas explore what an unsettled life looks like as they discuss the life of Jesus as a carpenter, free solo rock climber Alex Honnold, encouraging our kids to jump off the diving board, and taking risks like singing karaoke.  

The Unsettled Podcast exists to inspire people, including ourselves, to not settle for a life that's anything less than what God has intended. Through honest conversations, stories from the trenches, intriguing questions, and practical challenges, we hope to ignite a spark that moves our listeners to pursue the invitation God has for them. 

CALLED TO MORE.  MADE TO RISK.

Episodes Produced by Guestroom Studio Mastering Engineer Caden Baughman

Music Credit - It was Never Enough by Sunbreak.  EpidemicSound.com 

Transcript

Intro

Thomas 0:05

Did we ever discourage our kids from jumping off the diving board? You never know. Right. Now, every single one of them is worried about it, but why do you encourage them to do it? And what do they say every single time after the first time they jump in? What's the first word that comes out of their mouth? Again, again. Because I have been opened up to something that I didn't know existed. I knew I was safe. And I did it. And now I feel really confident. I feel good about myself. I think God can be that security.

Todd 0:38

Welcome to the Unsettled Podcast. Episode one. I'm Todd. This is Thomas. And we just wanted to get together in this podcast and share as much from our own experience as well as the experience of other people what it looks like to live an unsettled life. And Thomas, I think as as we think about this idea of unsettled, like what does that mean to you? Why are we doing this? Why is this something important that we actually decided to launch a podcast called Unsettled?

Thomas 1:08

I mean, I think we spent a lot of years talking about we should do this based on the conversations that we've had together. But I think we also realize that in a lot of people we know and a lot of people in this community, that there is a general consensus that just showing up and doing the same thing every day is not enough. You know? And so I think it's important to have a dialogue about it, but in a pragmatic way that people driving to their job can say, well, there's other people that feel like I do. Like this isn't enough. I mean, I I'm not just going to show up and do the same thing I've always done today. And why do you do that? And I think we took a little bit of that into the, well, then why don't we just record it? We're just recording our conversations.

Todd 1:45

Yeah. Yeah. We've been having conversations like this for several years. And you and I both are kind of those guys who I guess we've we've lived in a in a life that has done some different we've done some different jobs, we've taken some risks, tried different things out, and we've always felt like there's something more. And that's not just in our jobs, but that's also in just the way that we have relationships in our families, relationships with other people, how we raise our kids, and then also in our spirituality, our in our relationship with God, what it looks like to have more available to where, you know, we may say, gosh, I feel like I kind of understand this Christian thing, what it means to live a life in God's kingdom. And yet there seems to be a much greater expanse of that experience to where we're saying, okay, I have my own experience currently. It's where I'm at. It's it's not bad. And I feel like there's more, and I want to be able to experience more. So I think that's for me, I'm just I'm just saying there's there's more available, and I would like to explore what that looks like with somebody else, and then also try to bring in the stories of other people to see you know what their experience is and why they've decided to take risk.

Thomas 3:01

And I think that's that's the encouraging part about it is people are out there doing this right now. I I think we're trying to do it. In all honesty, we're doing this podcast for you and me. I I don't want to do this because there's nothing we can get out of it. I want to do that, but I also want anybody that would listen to this or the people that come and visit with us to understand that I mean there's more people on your team. You know, it's this idea that we're we're not out here just doing your own thing. I mean, and whether it whether it's just a man, you know, a male thing or a female thing, it's like we're all out trying to do better, you know, and and that's a good thing. Which

Contentment and Called to More

Thomas 3:36

kind of brings me to the idea of on that path, and when you're on that road, then where is that line between I want more than this and I'm happy with what I've been given? Yeah, and and that's something that I've personally struggled with. I've I've prayed about that, it's things I've never I I and I still don't fully know where that line is, but I don't want to sound like I'm ungrateful. I don't want to sound like I'm not thankful for what I've been given. It's just that when you're called to more, how do you balance that? I yeah, it's just something I wanted to discuss.

Todd 4:06

Yeah, I I think about the passage out of Philippians 4. Paul's talking in here, and he says, I think this is in 412, I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. And in fact, actually, back in verse 11, I'm not saying this because I'm in need, for I have learned to be content, whatever the circumstances. So there's something even that Paul admits in his letter to the Philippians that he is content and that he can do everything through Christ who strengthens him. So, in some way, like, are we being are we being unbiblical because we're saying, like, well, yeah, we're in this place where we, I mean, God, we we've got it pretty good. I mean, we're fairly comfortable in the places that we're at in our jobs and with our families. And yet, man, I just I just look at scripture and I look at how people were living their lives with with with kind of this expectation that there was something miraculous that they got to live in their life.

Jesus the Carpenter

Todd 5:01

You know, you were talking earlier, we were having a little conversation before recording about this idea of whether or not Jesus was a good carpenter. What does that matter?

Thomas 5:10

Right. And that that was what came to my mind this morning as we were kind of preparing for this or thinking about it was okay, what what did he do on a day-to-day basis? I like to think of of Jesus as as a dude, as a guy who got up in the morning and and was tired, or or a guy that had to go through things that weren't what we read about in the Bible. I mean, he he was human, right? So he dealt with the same stuff that I think we all can relate to at some point. So the question was, what type of carpenter was he? Was he a good carpenter? What was he best at? Did he go to carpenter trade school? I go, were all these things? And and and I I guess the answer when I asked you that this morning, you're like, well, I don't really know. I have no idea. Nobody knows. The point in my mind is because it doesn't matter. He he wasn't born to be a carpenter. If he did, if he was the greatest carpenter that's ever existed, we wouldn't be talking about him 2,000 years later on a podcast.

Todd 6:05

Yeah. So what if Jesus had just been content with being a carpenter? And he was like, you know what? I actually can do what I need to do. I can I can supply for my family if he were able to, you know, if he got married and had kids, if if that's what Jesus decided to do. And he was just like, Yeah, I just feel pretty good about being a carpenter. This this book isn't written about just a carpenter. Like, it's not just about somebody who that was their job. Nothing wrong with him being a carpenter at all. And there's nothing wrong with with whatever we do, you know. For for me in nonprofit ministry, for you, in IT and working with computers and all the networking that you do, those are things that we do that are good things. They provide for our family, and we are looking for the kind of transcendent how do I live this life in a way that it's not just stuck in that one place where I just get really comfortable and then I'm kind of just satisfied. And there's something in me that sits in this place of being grateful for what I have. Absolutely, 100%. And I know there's more, and I and I want to learn what it looks like to experience that more, especially when I look at the things that I see in scripture.

Thomas 7:19

And I think he was the model for that. I don't think anybody would think that say that Jesus wasn't grateful, you know, or that he wasn't content. I think he knew his purpose better than anybody ever has. And I think he knew that his purpose wasn't to be a carpenter. I I mean, think about the disciples that out there fishing. These guys obviously got taught how to fish. They were obviously proficient at it. They were providing for their family, they were providing for their community, but when they got that call to something that was bigger than what they had always known, why did they put their nuts down then? Would anybody have blamed them to say, you know what, I'm I'm good. I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna keep fishing. Who would blame them at that time from a practical, pragmatic point of view, have said, you're gonna stay doing what you've been taught, what you're good at, and you're gonna do it really well? Who would say that's bad? Nobody would say that's bad, but they did put their nets down anyway. And Jesus went out and healed people and he did things anyway because there was that call, they were unsettled. Yeah,

Why Are You Unsettled?

Speaker 1 8:19

yeah.

Todd 8:19

So so what is it in you when you think about this idea of being unsettled? What is it that kind of drives you? What stirs you to not be in that status quo, same place, same thing I've been doing every day? What's in you that causes you to want to risk more and to experience something else than you have currently?

Thomas 8:43

I mean, I I think that's a long answer. I think we'll get into some of my story later. And but I think ultimately it's just my relationship with God. My experience, that relationship has just opened my eyes to think that there's just more to accomplish. There's just more to do. I mean, I've I had I went through some injuries, I mean, I've gone through some things that have that I'll get into at some point, but it just opens your eyes to the fact that I can't I can't be here just for this reason. It's not enough that everything has conspired to bring me here in this place around these people, just to mail it in. It's just to show up every day and do nothing more than that. And that it's just a feeling it's just this intrinsic thing I just can't ignore. And I want to explore that as we're talking. I mean, that's part of what I want to understand more. I I think you I see that in you, we relate to that. I think if you're listening to this, I think you feel that too. Whether you have allowed that to be a thing or not, I still think it's there. I think it's in every one of us.

Todd 9:40

Yeah, I guess that's kind of as you're talking about that. I'm thinking about other people. Is that true? Is it true that everybody has this intrinsically? Does it just get hidden? Does it get pushed away? Is it because of experiences in life where it didn't go well? And so it's like, man, I I have a fear now of stepping out and trying something different because I got hurt, because it didn't go well. And so then it's just you kind of fade back and you're like, man, I don't I don't want to risk having that happen again. I just I I I think it's true for everybody, but maybe it's just something that happens that keeps you from wanting to take those risks.

Thomas 10:20

Yeah, I I think fear just suppressed that. I I think the the fear of what other people think about me, or if I'm gonna say these things, I think it's suppressed that feeling in people enough just to say, I'm I'm okay with being okay. Because again, there's nothing wrong with that.

From Pastor to Working with Foster Families

Thomas 10:36

But I I mean I think back to a story of a pastor, really close friend of mine, probably the most authentic, genuine person I may have ever met in my life. And the guy was at a church doing what everybody agreed he should be doing, but he was stuck. He he was just at a place in his life where he was showing up, he was he was bringing a message. I mean, he's doing God's work, right? I mean, who am I to say that he wasn't in the right place? But through getting to know him and spending time with him, you could just see there was something underneath. There was that there was that call. But he didn't want, you know, the what would the congregation say? You know, well, what if I stepped into this stuff and I and I didn't do exactly what I'm expected to do at my church? And so as we talked more, he had gone through a lot of adversity things in his life that had uniquely equipped him to provide a population of people, in this case it was foster parents, adoptive and and foster families. He had been literally equipped to provide this population of people with something that only he could bring them. And so through our conversations, we had these we talked about that and said, Man, I I I think you have more to offer than than Sunday morning. I mean, not that you're doing anything wrong again, you know, but it was and so when he stepped into that and leaned into that, he I mean he left. He left the church. That may not be what what most people recommend a pastor do, but he left, he started a nonprofit, he's flourishing. There are people that are going through trauma, going through struggles, that are getting built up, that are getting supported in ways that I maintain they couldn't have unless he had answered that call. And so I look at that and I'm inspired by that. I just look at that and think, so this is somebody who who broke the mold, who put themselves out there in a pretty risky way, and now is seeing families brought together. That's that's inspiring to me.

Todd 12:31

Yeah, I I remember years ago there was uh another youth pastor. I was I used to be a youth pastor, and there was another guy here in town, and I remember we were we were talking something about just purpose and and what you do with your life, and he made the mention you need to look at the place that you bless others and bless the kingdom of God the most. And I your friend there, the pastor, like it's not that he wasn't doing that, he was blessing others and the kingdom as he was pastoring, and and maybe maybe it's seasonal too. I mean, for him, maybe it was okay, I have been doing this pastoring thing, but now it's time for me to move in a different direction with kind of the passions and the gifts that I have, and how to bless others and bless the kingdom just was maybe shifting for him, or maybe it was that that's where he could do it even more. And I I've thought about that over the years for me. I

Changing Jobs & Preparation for What's Next

Todd 13:25

I I've changed jobs many times. I've got friends, and you maybe you think this of me too. But I do, yeah, I know where you're going. I mean, I just I feel like I'm kind of the five to seven year guy, you know, where and I it feels at times flaky because people think, uh, and well, now you're just here and then you're gone. But I mean, seriously, I in in the gosh, what, 25 years I've been in professional work or whatever that means, I've had typically about every five to seven years I switch. And not that I change a lot. Like, I mean, I've gone from being a youth pastor, I moved into working with a nonprofit pregnancy center for for helping guys who were fathers, maybe for the first time. And then I went to becoming to become a worship pastor, and then now working more with students in like an after-school program, again, all pretty much all nonprofit. So there's there's some relation between those, and yet at the same time, they they've been very different. And what I've noticed for me is that every single season has prepared me for the next one. And I know not everybody is a five to seven year change jobs person, but what I've noticed is I'll get kind of to a point where I'm starting to feel what I've termed as kind of an unrest. And I can just tell that God's starting to stir something in me for something different. I've actually really enjoyed that because what that means to me is in some ways, the job is done for what I came here for, and now it's time to move on to something else and participate in something different. But there's also been in that season where I've been equipped for the next one without ever even knowing it. I mean, every single one of those. I've been tasked with something or put in charge of something that I learned about, a particular way of doing something or leadership, that then the next job required that I have that. And so I've just seen the way that God works in my own life is through that kind of pattern so that I'm ready for what's next. And and I don't know that I would if I hadn't taken those steps, and some of those were risky to go into the next job. If I hadn't done that, I'm not sure I would have really understood and discovered what it was that God did in the past season that was getting me ready for the next one.

Thomas 15:42

Yeah, and I and I think that was exactly right for you. That's not right for me. Right. I mean, I I've basically had three jobs since I graduated from K State. And so some people would look at that and say, you know, how did you stay in these places that long? That was where I'm at. That's where you're at. I I would I would maintain we're all created. I mean, our DNA, all the way down to how what we are created for. We're gifted with things. And we don't, we don't always maybe we can't even name them all, but we are in unique positions. And I'm saying everybody, not just you and me, but we are in a unique position with the people in our lives, the skills and talents that we have we've been blessed with to go blow the doors off this thing. I mean, we have the ability that there is no ceiling to to our lives other than what we implement on ourselves. And so when when I hear you say that, I'm like, that that's your path. If I tried to replicate your path, I would suck at it. Yeah, yeah, right. That's not me. But I know that I have things and strengths that I have brought into certain certain circumstances that I really don't know that anybody else could have brought at that time. And I think that sort of dynamic, that sort of vivid picture of life, I think that is more of what God created us to have. Instead of just a I just show up and and okay is okay.

Free Solo & How to Know When It's Time to Take a Risk

Todd 16:58

So what would you say to the person who maybe is listening or or even just kind of considering how how would I know if it's time for me to maybe step out and try something different? Like, I mean, I think have you ever seen Free Solo? Have you ever seen Alex Honnold? Yes, that dude's wild. There's nothing in me that wants to do that. Zero. Zero. Did you did you watch the skyscraper?

Thomas 17:27

There were there were parts of my body that retracted when I watched this Netflix episode. Yes, I did see it, and no, that's not for me.

Todd 17:34

My hands and feet were sweating the entire time that I'm watching these things. I say that because that's not for me. That's not for you. And so there's nothing in me that is getting excited about going in free soloing when I'm watching that. But maybe you are watching something or you you are seeing something, you're hearing something that's stirring something in you. I mean, is that is that your experience, or how how do we help somebody to kind of say, yeah, I think it's time for me to maybe take a risk?

Thomas 18:05

Yeah, I I don't know. I mean, even watching somebody do something as extreme as that, there's a freedom about the fact where the dude walks out of his bus or his van, throws some sneakers on, and climbs a 2,000-foot-tall building. I mean, it there's something freeing about not the physical act of doing it of just like, why not? Well, why not see something in your life and say, why not? Why why not me? And why can't I do this? And I don't want to encourage everybody to run out and quit their job. I mean, I you know me to be a lot more pragmatic, probably than than most. But I am saying ask ask God, be like, what else is there for me? What else is there for me to do? Uh whether it be in a we keep talking about jobs, this can be relationships. I mean, this can be anything that you're currently doing. I think most people will be surprised by the answer if you really listen to what it is, and it doesn't have to be move to Thailand and be a missionary. It doesn't mean you have to do something crazy. It just might mean maybe it's just saying something to somebody and develop a relationship because who knows where that can lead. It's that whole idea of when you go down that path, there there is no, there's no end to it, there's no top. It can go anywhere it needs to go, and that's exciting to me.

Todd 19:22

Yeah.

Fear, Small Risks, and Singing Karaoke

Todd 19:23

Exciting, scary. I mean, and that isn't that just part of it. Like whenever you're stepping out into something that you're not exactly sure how it's gonna go, isn't fear just always gonna be a part of that? I mean, there's there's something in us, there's a reason we're not doing it, right? There's a reason we're not stepping out, and and it's gotta be some sort of fear. You know, I think about when you take little risks, for me at least, it seems to give me a little bit more ability to take bigger risks. I know I'm gonna give a stupid example and you're already smirking. I'm ready for it. So this past Friday, my my wife and I, we were at this this place that's kind of a it's it's kind of a renovated motel, but it's got a bar attached to it. So so we were kind of celebrating some things. So we were hanging out in the barges for a little bit. Well, it's it's gallant time's night. Gallant time, so it's all the gals. Okay, okay, you got it. So so they're there, they're doing like some sort of bingo thing uh with the DJ that's there. And he got done. Somebody bingoed out or whatever, and so now it's time. He he asks, Hey, can can we do some karaoke? And don't tell me you did karaoke. Of course I did, because my wife made me. I haven't done karaoke for a long time. But here, you know what she said to me? You guys are doing a podcast about risk. You better get out there and do something. So she used this against me, but I'm like, no, seriously, uh okay, if I can take a little risk, those little risks give me more courage to do bigger risks. And I again I know this is stupid, but just standing up there and singing Joy to the World by Three Dog Night was it was it's it's not super comfortable. I had a blast, I mean it was fun, but I I have to do those little risky things because it's a lot easier for me to just stay simple, stay easy, stay comfortable, and then I just get stuck in that. If I and if I'm not taking those little risks, then I just find that I can become complacent pretty quickly. So I guess for me, that's important. And I and I would say for the person who's maybe thinking about that, if you're not really sure you're ready for big risks, just take some little risks. And you don't have to sing karaoke, but whatever your flavor of the small risk is, try that.

Thomas 21:39

Well, and and it can be like I said, it can be introducing yourself to somebody, it can be engaging somebody that that you see a need and you engage them. I mean, because you never know where that can end up. I mean,

Kids on Diving Boards

Thomas 21:50

as as parents, I mean, I've got I've got three kids, you've got two kids. What what did we do when our kids were three years old, four years old, and they were at the swimming pool? Did we ever discourage? Our kids from jumping off the diving board. You never do that. Now, every single one of them is worried about it, but why do you encourage them to do it? And what do they say every single time after the first time they jump in? What's the first word that comes out of their mouth? Again, again. Because I have been opened up to something that I didn't know existed. I knew I was safe and I did it. And now I feel really confident. I feel good about myself. I think God can be that security. We can take a risk. It doesn't have to be dramatic. It can be singing karaoke in front of a bunch of strangers. It can be moving away. It can be whatever it is. But we have to know that security is underneath us. So going back to the original question is ask God, because with God, you you can do all things. That's where your security comes from.

Todd 22:45

Yeah, yeah. I can really appreciate

Why We're Doing This Podcast

Todd 22:47

that. I think, you know, as we continue on in this in this podcast, we we just want to try to find ways to inspire, again, you mentioned earlier, our ourselves and others to not just stay in the same place. And and that that's just going to look different for everybody. And so we're not here saying we got it all figured out. We're not saying that you need to do exactly what we do. But if we can in our own lives kind of share some of these common experiences and then bring some guests in, you know, our our goal is to find other people, and we know they exist, they're in our lives, that if they're willing to come on and share about their own experience on and how they've risked and what that's looked like for them, we just feel like that can inspire others to to try to do something different and not just get stuck. So as we kind of wrap up this particular episode,

What's Next?

Todd 23:39

Thomas, what would you say for the for the person listening? What's kind of how how should they reflect on this? Or what's something maybe that you would encourage them to do?

Thomas 23:47

Like I said before, I would just encourage to ask, is this is this what I'm supposed to do? Is this where I'm supposed to be? And I think if you're told yes, I think that's a great thing. I don't think either one of us want anybody to just immediately run out and make rash decisions. It's a is this what I'm supposed to do? Do I feel good waking up every morning and doing what I'm about to do? Am I fulfilling my purpose? Am I living my life? Ask the question and and then listen because you may or may not be happy with what you hear.

Todd 24:18

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say as you're asking that question, make sure you're in a place of being okay to hear yes or no. I mean, whatever, kind of empty yourself, be willing to take the answer that God gives you. Because if you ask the question with only the hopeful answer that you are looking for, you're probably going to hear what you want to hear. So just being willing to hear what God has to say and then to act upon that. I yeah, I think for me, it's how can I then hear God? And when we talk about hearing from God, I mean it can be anything from you're you're out for a walk and you see something that triggers a thought in you that you've been asking this question from God, and now that's that's that thought kind of starts to spin a little bit more in your head. That can be hearing from God. You could you could hear from God through another person, through a sermon, through a podcast. I mean, there are a lot of different ways that you could hear from Him. I think for me, it's just being willing to try it, just give it a try. I I I how many things have we missed? And this isn't a guilt-ridden, shame-ridden thing, but how many things have we missed just because we didn't want to try because it was just kind of uncomfortable? I mean, I could have easily not done karaoke, trust me. I would have been fine with that. But because I did it, it was like, oh yeah, that's kind of fun. Like it's it opened something up again. Now I didn't do it again. One song's enough. But that's also because you can't, you can't, you got to do one song, leave them hanging wanting for more, drop the mic and get out of there. So so next time we'll we'll come back, we'll continue to talk more about this idea of being unsettled, try to share some stories and where we see God at work in our lives. And hopefully it's beneficial for you all who are listening. So grateful for your ear for here for about 27 minutes. You've been listening to the unsettled podcast.